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HP L7780 CIS -> General HP88 CIS discussion

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#1: HP L7780 CIS -> General HP88 CIS discussion Author: aab1,

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:41 pm
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I used to have an Officejet 9110, one of those HP business inkjets with the built in ink pump which makes putting a CIS on these a breeze and you don't have to worry about ink levels as the ink flow is controlled by a pump and pressure sensors in the printer.

I now got an L7780 and due to the rumors that they added an anti refill system (which I've now been told is false) I decided to get a pre built CIS system for it for $55, it works well so far, but part of the ink pump and pressure sensor in these business printers is in the cartridges themselves, and these fake cartridges that came with the CIS don't have the pump part in them, meaning the printer can no longer control ink flow and pressure and I'm concerned this may cause problems or premature wear of the printheads, which are now themselves the inly "ink pump" left, they were not meant to pump ink like that, the printer's ink pump was, and is now non functional.

Do you think this could cause any problems? Should I attach it to original HP cartridges to restore the ink pump's function? It's a quite powerful pump also, when I had forgotten to put small air inlet holes, it actually squashed my ink bottles from the vaccum pressure.

For anyone who wants a CIS, and after reading the nightmares it can be to put on home printers, I really think if you want a CIS, these HP ink pump equipped business printers are by far the best option, and the fastest inkjets available today at 35 pages/minute.

#2: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:20 pm
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I wasn't aware of any "pump" in the actual cartridges themselves and so I grabbed an empty original OEM cart and pulled it apart.

In a nutshell there is no pump.. The ink is a silver foil bag with an outlet and if you pull the base off the cartridge you'll find hole plugged with a small plastic ball which is where ink is originally pumped into the cartridge. About the only other difference is a rubber bulb/bump at the base of the cartridge which could, I suppose be used as a sort of pump style device but to be honest I doubt very much if it's required in a CIS situation.

If anything I've discovered that these printers along with the K550, K5400 require a more positive ink pressure so what I have done is elevate my reservoir bottles so the ink level is slightly higher than the top of the cartridges. This seems to work quite well and should offset any pumping issues.

#3: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:20 pm
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Having had a chance to think this through a little further and cogitate for a bit I realised that the "pump" you'd referred to was perhaps a little misleading.

On the base of the HP88 cartridges there's a rubber bulb which I hadn't really considered. It seems that this bulb gets prodded by some mechanism in the cartridge recepticle on the printer and helps increase pressure somewhat so that it flows into the printhead. In essence it's not so much a pump in the traditional sense as a sort of "hack" that HP have resorted to, to ensure there's sufficient pressure.. at a guess, especially when the ink levels are low.

Thinking about it logically it makes some sense but for anyone who's put together an extension using compatible cartridges that are tube fed from external reservoirs this "pump" mechanism will have no benefit at all. It does however indicate a possible reason for the problems with initial ink flow on the black (it doesn't seem to effect the other colours). You seem to get a sort of starvation banding for the first inch or so and then it kicks in to print normally.

The only solution I've come up with is to raise the ink reservoir levels so they are about an inch or so above the top of the cartridges and adjust as necessary.

#4: Author: aab1,

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:28 pm
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Well the black buldge under the cartridges is essentially the "piston chamber" with the piston being on the printer itself. It is in fact an ink pump, you can hear the ink pump motor run during printing, it has a very distinctive sound different from any other motor in the printer (it's the weird sound you hear right after inserting cartridges and closing the cartridge door).

During printing, a piston constantly (or almost, it goes with the sound I described above) pumps against this rubber buldge, when it presses down on it, ink is pumped from the black buldge to the printheads, and when it releases ink is pumped from the cartridge to the black buldge, where it then presses against it again to send it to the printheads, it's a pump system with one way valves. This is also what detects when the cartridge is empty, if the black buldge no longer expands after being pressed, this indicates a vacuum, which itself indicates an empty cartridge.

As I said my cheap pre built CIS system disabled my L7780's ink pump so I no longer hear it run during printing.

Another fact confirming there is indeed an ink pump is that on my old Officejet 9110 whoch had the same cartridge system, I had once gotten an "Ink pump motor stalled" error.

About the black having problem at the start of the first page, this is normally due to air bubbles being trapped in the printhead, this happened to me but after several thousands prints it seems to have gotten the air out, otherwise the solution is to replace the affected printhead or live with the problem (living with this problem will dramatically accelerate the aging of the printheads).

#5: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:48 pm
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aab1 wrote:
Well the black buldge under the cartridges is essentially the "piston chamber" with the piston being on the printer itself. It is in fact an ink pump, you can hear the ink pump motor run during printing, it has a very distinctive sound different from any other motor in the printer (it's the weird sound you hear right after inserting cartridges and closing the cartridge door).

Yeah, that makes sense... I wouldn't see it as a pump so much though as a shunt or similar as it's simply enhancing the ink pressure rather than pumping it in the traditional sense.

Quote:
During printing, a piston constantly (or almost, it goes with the sound I described above) pumps against this rubber buldge, when it presses down on it, ink is pumped from the black buldge to the printheads, and when it releases ink is pumped from the cartridge to the black buldge, where it then presses against it again to send it to the printheads, it's a pump system with one way valves. This is also what detects when the cartridge is empty, if the black buldge no longer expands after being pressed, this indicates a vacuum, which itself indicates an empty cartridge.

I think where we disagree here is in the definition of "pump". The piston is not constantly increasing pressure forcing/feeding more and more ink to the head, it's simply a one shot pressure increase that ensures that low ink levels don't affect ink flow towards the end of the printers life.

Quote:
As I said my cheap pre built CIS system disabled my L7780's ink pump so I no longer hear it run during printing.

Well it doesn't disable it per-se it just doesn't provide a bulb for the piston to press against and regardless because your (and my) CIS system has a vent in the reservoir it negates any effect the piston would have anyway.

Quote:
Another fact confirming there is indeed an ink pump is that on my old Officejet 9110 whoch had the same cartridge system, I had once gotten an "Ink pump motor stalled" error.

Again, it's a definition or terminology thing... But if they call it a pump then I guess we can Smile

...

Quote:
About the black having problem at the start of the first page, this is normally due to air bubbles being trapped in the printhead, this happened to me but after several thousands prints it seems to have gotten the air out, otherwise the solution is to replace the affected printhead or live with the problem (living with this problem will dramatically accelerate the aging of the printheads).

That's about what I figured and in truth I've never really found a successful technique to reducing this problem aside from adding additional pressure by elevating the reservoirs.

#6: Author: aab1,

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:40 pm
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Thanks for the reply.

I wanted to correct you on one thing though, you say it provides one shot pressure but that's not how it works, they way I figured it works is that each plastic "piston" that comes and press against the black buldge is spring loaded, this does that even though the printer motor pushes the pistons all the way, they will barely move at all and remain under the pressure of the spring. As the printer prints, the black buldge slowly "deflates" causing the piston to move in more and more under the pressure of the spring (against the pressure of the ink in the black buldge holding it back). Those pistons also have sensors, when it detects the piston has moved all the way out, it knows the black buldge is empty and will retract all pistons (allowing the black buldges to refill with ink) and then pushes them all back, applying a constant pressure to all 4 buldges, so there really is a constant pressure. If ever you have an old broken hp printer like these, you can try cutting one of the ink tubes going to the printheads and I'm sure the ink pump will start pumping constantly, as it only stops once the other side is also pressurized, so you'd hear the pistons move back and forth constantly while ink shoots out the tube.

You can test what I said like this:
Put all 3 colors cartridges in except for the black, put only the small plastic base of the cartridge which holds the memory chip so it detects a cartridge. Now if you closed the door like this you'd get a "Black ink cartridge empty" error as it would detect the buldge has collapsed (in this case it's actually missing, but this simulates an empty cartridge which causes the buldge to collapse under the vacuum pressure). Now open the door and put your finger against the piston and then insert something into the cartridge door sensor so it thinks you closed it. If you resist the pressure of the piston it should let go, but if you slowly allow the piston to move out, it will then retrack and extend again, if you leave it come out several times it will eventually give up on trying to pump ink and declare the cartridge empty.

I've had HP printers with this ink pump system for many years now so I now a lot about them, the L7780 is at least my 4th printer which these HP ink pumps, I think it's an awesome system.

#7: Author: Color_Workshop, Location: Sweden, Uppsala

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:51 pm
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Quote:
Quote:
About the black having problem at the start of the first page, this is normally due to air bubbles being trapped in the printhead, this happened to me but after several thousands prints it seems to have gotten the air out, otherwise the solution is to replace the affected printhead or live with the problem (living with this problem will dramatically accelerate the aging of the printheads).

That's about what I figured and in truth I've never really found a successful technique to reducing this problem aside from adding additional pressure by elevating the reservoirs.

Actually the blank ink problem is having to do with that most places sells this Ciss with dye black ink while the ink should be pigment.

It does not happen at all when you run it with correct kind of ink.

At least that is been my experience.

I could not get good black print until this was discovered and changed to pigment black.

/Amin

#8: Author: aab1,

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:39 pm
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Color_Workshop wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
About the black having problem at the start of the first page, this is normally due to air bubbles being trapped in the printhead, this happened to me but after several thousands prints it seems to have gotten the air out, otherwise the solution is to replace the affected printhead or live with the problem (living with this problem will dramatically accelerate the aging of the printheads).

That's about what I figured and in truth I've never really found a successful technique to reducing this problem aside from adding additional pressure by elevating the reservoirs.

Actually the blank ink problem is having to do with that most places sells this Ciss with dye black ink while the ink should be pigment.

It does not happen at all when you run it with correct kind of ink.

At least that is been my experience.

I could not get good black print until this was discovered and changed to pigment black.

/Amin

This is also true, my CIS system had dye black ink and I had this issue, I replaced the in and made several photocopies with the scanner lid open to print whole black pages to pump that junk out of the system, it's now running normally.

By the way, I noticed the original HP ink gives me dark pitch black, but even my pigment ink refill isn't as black, have you found a pigment black refill ink that's as black as HP's? Most people would probably swear the original HP black is laser toner since it's such a deep, pitch black.

#9: Author: Color_Workshop, Location: Sweden, Uppsala

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:01 pm
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Quote:
This is also true, my CIS system had dye black ink and I had this issue, I replaced the in and made several photocopies with the scanner lid open to print whole black pages to pump that junk out of the system, it's now running normally.

By the way, I noticed the original HP ink gives me dark pitch black, but even my pigment ink refill isn't as black, have you found a pigment black refill ink that's as black as HP's? Most people would probably swear the original HP black is laser toner since it's such a deep, pitch black.

Hi

Actually, it will sound like self promotion when I answer this question of yours but I will first explain who I am:

I am co owner of a company named Color Workshop, we are based in Sweden.
We sell ciss that we import from China and then quality control them.
After this we fill the ciss with ink from an American factory or Nazdar/Lyson ink. Nazdar is an American company that offers Screen inks and they have since January or February of 2006 bought up the British company Lyson and now offer theres ink as theirs digital line of ink.
We have just started with Lyson ink and products so we have not had time to update our page yet with all the information.

But the pigment black ink that we offer for this HP printers comes from the American factory and it is as black as any Laser printers print on plain paper.

So to answer your question, yes I believe we offer ink that is as black as HPs original pigment black.

our web page is in Swedish, but I am not sure if I am allowed to type the web address here so if you are interested or have any questions don't hesitate to send a PM to me.

Best regards,
Amin

#10: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:18 pm
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aab1 wrote:
I wanted to correct you on one thing though, you say it provides one shot pressure but that's not how it works, they way I figured it works is that each plastic "piston" that comes and press against the black buldge is spring loaded, this does that even though the printer motor pushes the pistons all the way, they will barely move at all and remain under the pressure of the spring. As the printer prints, the black buldge slowly "deflates" causing the piston to move in more and more under the pressure of the spring (against the pressure of the ink in the black buldge holding it back). Those pistons also have sensors, when it detects the piston has moved all the way out, it knows the black buldge is empty and will retract all pistons (allowing the black buldges to refill with ink) and then pushes them all back, applying a constant pressure to all 4 buldges, so there really is a constant pressure. If ever you have an old broken hp printer like these, you can try cutting one of the ink tubes going to the printheads and I'm sure the ink pump will start pumping constantly, as it only stops once the other side is also pressurized, so you'd hear the pistons move back and forth constantly while ink shoots out the tube.

Ah... I see... Ok... well I stand corrected then.. I had assumed (stupid of me) that the bulge part allowed free flow back and forth into the silver bag reservoir part of the cartridge but from what you seem to be saying there's actually a one way valve in there that allows ink to feed in to the bulb but not back into reservoir part. If that's true then it makes sense that the system you've mentioned does indeed provide a constant pressure and I'm seriously wondering why the CIS cartridges haven't mirrored this (probably too difficult or cost prohibitive).

Thanks for the explanation though and being patient with my "You're wrong" Smile

#11: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:22 pm
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aab1 wrote:
Color_Workshop wrote:
Actually the blank ink problem is having to do with that most places sells this Ciss with dye black ink while the ink should be pigment.

It does not happen at all when you run it with correct kind of ink.

At least that is been my experience.

I could not get good black print until this was discovered and changed to pigment black.

/Amin

This is also true, my CIS system had dye black ink and I had this issue, I replaced the in and made several photocopies with the scanner lid open to print whole black pages to pump that junk out of the system, it's now running normally.

By the way, I noticed the original HP ink gives me dark pitch black, but even my pigment ink refill isn't as black, have you found a pigment black refill ink that's as black as HP's? Most people would probably swear the original HP black is laser toner since it's such a deep, pitch black.

Hmm.. that's interesting. I'll have to check with my ink supplier that I am indeed getting pigment ink for my HP's... I suspect that I am so I'll need to do some more checking.

#12: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:09 pm
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Martin wrote:
aab1 wrote:
I wanted to correct you on one thing though, you say it provides one shot pressure but that's not how it works, they way I figured it works is that each plastic "piston" that comes and press against the black buldge is spring loaded, this does that even though the printer motor pushes the pistons all the way, they will barely move at all and remain under the pressure of the spring. As the printer prints, the black buldge slowly "deflates" causing the piston to move in more and more under the pressure of the spring (against the pressure of the ink in the black buldge holding it back). Those pistons also have sensors, when it detects the piston has moved all the way out, it knows the black buldge is empty and will retract all pistons (allowing the black buldges to refill with ink) and then pushes them all back, applying a constant pressure to all 4 buldges, so there really is a constant pressure. If ever you have an old broken hp printer like these, you can try cutting one of the ink tubes going to the printheads and I'm sure the ink pump will start pumping constantly, as it only stops once the other side is also pressurized, so you'd hear the pistons move back and forth constantly while ink shoots out the tube.

Ah... I see... Ok... well I stand corrected then.. I had assumed (stupid of me) that the bulge part allowed free flow back and forth into the silver bag reservoir part of the cartridge but from what you seem to be saying there's actually a one way valve in there that allows ink to feed in to the bulb but not back into reservoir part.

Well, curiosity got the better of me and I decided to rip a couple of the cartridges apart to discover their secrets. The results were that they do indeed have a simple non-return valve in them.

Ink is pulled from the main reservoir into the bulb past a very simple non-return valve, and the bulb (which is spring loaded too) then pumps ink out of the cartridge exit port into the printer receptacle.

Naturally I've decided to take this one stage further and I'm going to take a set of exhausted cartridges and convert them so the bag is no longer used and I'll glue (sealed with epoxy resin) a modified barb fitting over the input port to the bulb then drill the cartridge outer so a tube can be fed into it and connected, thus feeding the bulb directly from the reservoirs. That should allow me to use a standard bottle reservoir system AND benefit from the pump device. Naturally I'll also swap the chips for some auto-reset versions but at a guess it should work rather nicely Smile

I'll let you know how I get on Cool

#13: Author: aab1,

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:11 pm
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Sounds great, I never even opened a cartridge (I opened the print heads though). Could you post pictures of how and where you connect the tube bypassing the ink bag?

Thanks

#14: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:34 pm
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aab1 wrote:
Sounds great, I never even opened a cartridge (I opened the print heads though). Could you post pictures of how and where you connect the tube bypassing the ink bag?

I'll take some over the next few days as I'm repeating the process now.

One thing to note... I've had this modified system on my cartridge now for over a week and I'm still seeing that initial lack of ink band on the first page. In desperation I've opted to purchase a completely different ink from an OCP reseller here in the UK to see if that resolves the issue. Given that I've completely rejigged the system to use the same pressure as applied by this system I'm getting a tad bemused as to other possible causes.. I'll keep you posted.

Oh and btw... have you folks found a reliable source of auto-reset chips for the L7000 series of printer? All the ones I have crap out on the black cartridge which is less than ideal.

#15: Author: aab1,

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:04 pm
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I got the auto reset chips that came with my pre built CIS system, they seem ok but do have an occasional glitch sometimes.

I also had the black issue for a few weeks, if you have ink to waste, do 25-100 photocopies with the scanner lid open to print many black pages, this should get the old dye based ink out and get the pigment ink in (this is of course assuming you have replaced the incompatible dye ink with pigment ink). After I printed a few black pages a day for 1-2 weeks, it finally went away. This may be due to incompatible (non pigment) ink in the printhead or air bubbles. If you're sure you're now using compatible ink, you can always replace the printhead, but mine came back to life after a while.

#16: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:36 pm
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aab1 wrote:
I got the auto reset chips that came with my pre built CIS system, they seem ok but do have an occasional glitch sometimes.

Yeah, unfortunately "glitches" aren't really acceptable when I'm putting them into systems for other users to be using. I guess I'll have to keep looking.

Quote:
I also had the black issue for a few weeks, if you have ink to waste, do 25-100 photocopies with the scanner lid open to print many black pages, this should get the old dye based ink out and get the pigment ink in (this is of course assuming you have replaced the incompatible dye ink with pigment ink). After I printed a few black pages a day for 1-2 weeks, it finally went away. This may be due to incompatible (non pigment) ink in the printhead or air bubbles. If you're sure you're now using compatible ink, you can always replace the printhead, but mine came back to life after a while.

I've since confirmed that the ink is indeed pigment based so I've opted to order in some OCP ink in the hope that it may not show the same symptoms. I've tried running a series of purges in black and that has the desired effect but only in the short term so I'm guessing that there may now be air in there.. Problem is there there's no way (that I know of) to purge these print heads of air bubbles manually so I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to manage this.

Either way we'll see what happens when this OCP ink arrives and if it's more compatible... Time will tell...

#17: HP L7680 CISS Issue Author: KRKAci,

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:46 am
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I bought a CISS from ebay. Installed fine but soon got an error message that it had consumed all the BLK ink that was originally installed ( I never installed the starter cartridges went directly to the CISS). The documentation shows that the reset chip should reset the ink levels but I can not get it to do it even after powering off and back on.

When restarting you do get the not an HP cartridge and it will invalidate your warrenty stuff but there is a new message that says that since this is not a real HP cartridge we will not report ink levels. So even though it does not seem to affect anything it looks like the system will always report the ink levels are unknow.

Has anyone else seen this? Is there a work around ? If I were to guess it is an HP firmware update to discourage anyone from not using an HP cartridge and make it a pain for anyone that doesll

#18: Re: HP L7680 CISS Issue Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:32 pm
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KRKAci wrote:
I bought a CISS from ebay. Installed fine but soon got an error message that it had consumed all the BLK ink that was originally installed ( I never installed the starter cartridges went directly to the CISS). The documentation shows that the reset chip should reset the ink levels but I can not get it to do it even after powering off and back on.

When restarting you do get the not an HP cartridge and it will invalidate your warrenty stuff but there is a new message that says that since this is not a real HP cartridge we will not report ink levels. So even though it does not seem to affect anything it looks like the system will always report the ink levels are unknow.

Has anyone else seen this? Is there a work around ? If I were to guess it is an HP firmware update to discourage anyone from not using an HP cartridge and make it a pain for anyone that doesll

This is exactly the same behaviour I see from the supposedly K5400 and L7X80 printer compatible Auto Reset Chips (ARC) for that model. So far I've been completely unable to locate or identify any suppliers for properly compatible printers and the suppliers I have talked to have gotten very quiet very quickly after an initial report or two.

The good news is that the black will run out and you lose the warranty but then amazingly when one of the other inks runs out it'll reset ALL of the others too (including the black) so you get your ink monitoring back again. Of course the point is moot when you have a CIS setup but for anyone using these chips in refillable cartridges (non-CIS) you'll need to carry out regular checks of the ink in the cartridges to be sure nothing has run out.

#19: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:06 pm
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aab1 wrote:
Sounds great, I never even opened a cartridge (I opened the print heads though). Could you post pictures of how and where you connect the tube bypassing the ink bag?

Finally got around to taking some pictures...
http://www.continuousink.info/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=370

It doesn't show how I did the actual glueing of the tube fitting but basically that should give you plenty to be going on.. All you need to do is find a way to attach a tube to that hole so ink can flow into it directly... I stripped back the bag completely to give me a clear space to work in and it helps to remove any excess ink left around.

I'll take some pictures of the fitting I used and how I glued it sometime soon when I get to that bit, later in the week.

#20: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:47 pm
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No pictures yet but a few tips for anyone else looking to follow in my footsteps and modify some OEM cartridges.

1. Make sure you remove the silver and plastic bag material from around the bulb inflow hole (being careful not to pierce or remove the material around the hole as noted here).
This is necessary to allow any glue to set properly as excess bag material can create a channel for ink to cause an air leak.

2. Avoid brittle epoxy resin glues to seal around the tube fitting as they will break very easily. I've found that a flexible epoxy adhesive works best after much experimentation.

#21: Author: KRKAci,

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:47 pm
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Wanted to send an update to the forum on what I found with my latest testing. Martin indicated that when the colored ink ran out that all the ink level monitoring would start working again... Well, I pulled one of the color ink cartridges as if it had run out of ink and I was replacing it and an interesting thing happened... Now ALL the ink levels are shown as unknown. I tried powering on and off and that still has not solved the problem.

I think HP is limiting ink reporting to only "Original" HP ink cartridges and has the firmware set up to turn it off if it finds a NON-HP cartridge. As Martin says not really a big issue for CISS users since you can monitor the ink levels in the external containers, but if you use refilled cartridges or OEM cartridges if the monitoring does not work it could be much more of a pain.

This was all in a NEW HP L7680 that was bought in Dec 2007.

#22: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:45 pm
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KRKAci wrote:
Well, I pulled one of the color ink cartridges as if it had run out of ink and I was replacing it and an interesting thing happened... Now ALL the ink levels are shown as unknown. I tried powering on and off and that still has not solved the problem.

Hmm... that's interesting..

Quote:
I think HP is limiting ink reporting to only "Original" HP ink cartridges and has the firmware set up to turn it off if it finds a NON-HP cartridge.

Given the age of your printer and the fact that HP licenses a lot of its chip technology from Canon it's probably fair to make an educated guess that HP have borrowed the "ink monitoring" = off, trick from Canon and possibly even upgraded the firmware on their printers... As I've said in relation to Canon this is pretty fair as the chip is designed to regulate it's own known ink supply. They have no way of knowing how long your own refilled supply might last so they can't be expected to take any responsibility for it.

Ah well... chalk that one up as another big print manufacturer using an approach known to inconvenience the refiller.

#23: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:45 pm
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Right, going back to the earlier discussion regarding modifying existing HP88 cartridges.

I installed one of these units on my L7680 printer and initially it seemed to work quite well but after about a week of sitting quietly I did a quick Print Quality printout and the result was pretty much a washed out, major ink starvation print that indicates there's a problem, more serious than the earlier refillable cartridges used as part of a CIS.

I'm going to pow-wow with my ink supplier tomorrow to see if he has any ideas and I've also adapted one of the cartridges using a much wider bore fitting in case the issue is actually one of the original ones impeding ink flow.

Anyways, right now I wouldn't necessarily recommend this modified cartridge approach for a little while.

#24: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:58 am
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Once again looking at the modified cartridge scenario...

This is getting rather strange and frustrating to the point that my other half has declared that I need to step away and get some head space before tackling this further. Good idea if only I'd take good advice Wink

Anyway, I opted yesterday to try a couple of things.

1. A smaller bore/diameter (approx 1mm) tube and fitting (to reduce the potential pressure)
2. A larger bore/diameter (approx 2mm) fitting with tube I've already used

I hooked both of these up to an ink supply and purged any air bubbles from the system using a syringe and blunt needle in the cartridge ink output port.

What quickly became apparent was that the smaller bore tubing was going to really slow ink down considerably with the rubber bulb requiring around 8 to 10 seconds to refill. This was quickly born out when I tested the cartridge in the printer itself. The printer was essentially gasping for ink with the pump/piston sounds repeating every second or so as the printer tried to force more ink into itself. Eventually the printer declared the small bore cartridge faulty and demanded a new one or else! so that obviously doesn't work.

The larger bore setup was somewhat better with the syringe test proving the bulb would refill in less than 2 seconds. However, for some reason, when installed in the printer it started to exhibit an increased pump/piston action as well. Whether this was due to poor placement or partial occlusion of the inflow hole when I glued the fitting on, I'm not sure but either way the printhead still displayed the same issues.

After a great deal of deliberation (and no small part of impatience) I opted to try a new printhead to ensure that the issue wasn't a damaged printhead and before hand checked that I was able to get a decent flow using the syringe just to be safe.

Unfortunately it seems that HP really do have some very bad QA procedures because the printhead displayed an issue I've seen before (ie: black banding in any yellow printing). Obviously it could be that my design has, in some way, caused the issue itself but given that the pressures should match the standard cartridge (I did some testing against a standard OEM cart) I'm more inclined to believe I got a crap printhead.

I do have another four on hand but rather than risk those all as well my next test will be when I'm fully in control of my temper Razz

, mind and sanity. I've also decided to try a different tack and adapt an existing cartridge by retaining the bag and fitting a tube fitting to the top of the internal unit (pictures will be forthcoming). That way the cartridge should retain any existing characteristics whilst increasing the capacity. Also the cartridge bag can act as a buffer between the external reservoir and the bulb assembly so hopefully it'll iron out any additional quirks or unintentional limitations I incorporated into my earlier attempts.

We shall see...

#25: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:45 pm
—
Well as promised I tried my new design but to avoid fubar'ing a new printhead, if indeed my efforts had done so, I tried the old printhead. Thus equipped I tackled my planned, new approach such that; instead of ripping apart the foil ink reservoir bag, I drilled into it carefully at the top and then glued a barbed tube fitting to the top of it. Forced myself to leave it alone for the day to dry Smile

and then re-rigged it with tubing and an ink supply.

Few things here:

Priming
- I set things up so the reservoir I was using was all ready and the tube could be lowered straight into the ink in the reservoir (in this case that mean't having the tubing threaded through the lid and set to the correct depth already)
- I pulled a vaccum on the cartridge to remove the absolute maximum of air that I could using an 80ml syringe with about 40ml of ink already in it.
- This allowed me to suck the ink out of the cartridge but then (by holding the syringe vertical, pointing down) allowing ink back in to the cartridge (it only pulls about 10ml back).
- Repeated this a couple of times to be sure I'd gotten the air out and then gently forced an extra 20ml of ink into the cartridge bag and tubing being careful to stop air getting in again and then clipped the tube while it was still full of ink.
- I then removed the syringe and put the tube end into the reservoir and screwed the lid down so it was ready to draw ink
- Finally, using a syringe with a blunt needle I pushed it into the ink outlet on the cartridge and drew ink through the entire system, nice and slow to remove any lingering air bubbles and ensure the bulb was fully primed.

Tip: The rubber bulb has a non return valve in it that shouldn't let any ink flow back into the main reservoir but if there's air trapped in there the bulb will push back and ink will flow the wrong way. You need to massage the rubber bulb a couple of times to ensure that all bubbles or anything else that might be blocking the non-return valve from doing it's job have dissipated. If you don't you'll get a message from the printer later on telling you the cartridge is empty and replace it with no excuses.

Once that lot was done I reassembled the cartridge casing and gently pushed the modified inner into position with the tubing and fitting poking out of the top of the cartridge (which I'd cut away).

I found out about the problem with the non-return valve initially but once I'd solved that it was simply a case of popping it into the system and away it goes.

Long term I have some concerns that the buffer effect I've incorporated into this particular design may fail somewhat but so long as no more than a couple of ml of air get in it should continue to function ok.

Once I've managed to clear the printers purge system of the black ink that's seeped to the yellow side of the printhead I'll be replacing the old one with another new one that should, all being well, work perfectly (different batch) and we'll see how we go from there.

I'll pop some pictures up sometime soon when I've had a chance to recharge the camera battery but here's what I spent my day doing... Smile

#26: Author: aab1,

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:06 pm
—
Thanks for all the details.

On your mod you are using original HP cartridges right? Do they bother you each time you run out of ink? It seems very 2000 pages or so I get this warning on mine and it cancels the print job and I have to restart it.

I never had this issue when using original HP cartridges on the CIS on my older HP printers. If I were to put the original HP cartridges/chips back, would it finally stop bothering me about non HP ink? Or is there no way to stap this? None of my other HP printers ever did this.

By the way I have a software/driver issue with this printer and was wondering if I'm the only one: Whenever I ask for a large amount of prints that are relatively complex with graphics, like 100 copies or more, the first 10 or so pages will print fine but then the computer starts getting slower and slower, as does the printer (due to the slowing down computer), eventually it gets so slow the computer just gives up on the print job and stops it after say 20 pages, as if it was done, with no error or anything. I constantly have to do small 25 page batches, but I normally do 500-2000 page or more print jobs (my L7780 is already at about 8000 prints in just 1-2 months).

Have you ever printed a complex graphic 100 copies or more on an L7000 series and did it work? IS this a problem built into the drivers I have to live with for as long as I have this printer (or HP makes a fix) or do I simply have a bad/corrupt installation? I must say I did try several re installs with no success, but they may not have been proper re installs.

So am I the only one that can't print 100 complex pages on an L7000 series?

By the way, 9110 would print independantly from the computer, it would send the entire print job, even complex ones, to the printer's memory, and then the computer disconnected from the printer and the printer printed the job on it's own built in computer and memory, is there any way to get this behavior from an L7000?

Thanks

#27: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:49 pm
—

aab1 wrote:
Thanks for all the details.

On your mod you are using original HP cartridges right? Do they bother you each time you run out of ink? It seems very 2000 pages or so I get this warning on mine and it cancels the print job and I have to restart it.

In truth it happens every time I turn the thing on or change a printhead, cartridge, etc... which I've been doing a lot lately.
EDIT: Think I misunderstood your question there... I don't use the original HP chips at all... I've got autoreset chips installed so whilst the cartridge assembly is the same (with modifications) the chip is definitely not HP.

Have you been able to continue to use standard HP chips on these printers and just refilling them then?

Quote:
I never had this issue when using original HP cartridges on the CIS on my older HP printers. If I were to put the original HP cartridges/chips back, would it finally stop bothering me about non HP ink? Or is there no way to stap this? None of my other HP printers ever did this.

It's something that HP have picked up from Canon's own chip design and functionality. Canon doesn't bug you every 2000 pages but it does force you to declare the printer out of warranty if you continue which HP does and BTW, you'll notice that the printer does store this information in memory as you can see on the self test printout. So beware if you're thinking of warranty return.

Quote:
By the way I have a software/driver issue with this printer and was wondering if I'm the only one: Whenever I ask for a large amount of prints that are relatively complex with graphics, like 100 copies or more, the first 10 or so pages will print fine but then the computer starts getting slower and slower, as does the printer (due to the slowing down computer), eventually it gets so slow the computer just gives up on the print job and stops it after say 20 pages, as if it was done, with no error or anything. I constantly have to do small 25 page batches, but I normally do 500-2000 page or more print jobs (my L7780 is already at about 8000 prints in just 1-2 months).

Not seen that so much but I have seen something different that smells of driver or print spooler issues. My other half has found that the last half of the last page doesn't print and sometimes she'll send 20 copies and get only 5 or so... No idea why but then my main server has been experiencing problems of late so it could be related.. somehow I have my doubts though.

Quote:
Have you ever printed a complex graphic 100 copies or more on an L7000 series and did it work? IS this a problem built into the drivers I have to live with for as long as I have this printer (or HP makes a fix) or do I simply have a bad/corrupt installation? I must say I did try several re installs with no success, but they may not have been proper re installs.

Frankly HP drivers are foooking awful, bloated pieces of rubbish and every once in a while they put out new ones that create more problems than older ones.. Not sure what the best ones are re: the L7000 series but I am looking.

Quote:
By the way, 9110 would print independantly from the computer, it would send the entire print job, even complex ones, to the printer's memory, and then the computer disconnected from the printer and the printer printed the job on it's own built in computer and memory, is there any way to get this behavior from an L7000?

Not sure... it should be possible to send everything to spool but at a guess, having seen the way that HP have "improved" some of their newer laser printers it's possible that they've actually reduced the memory in these models making them much more reliant on the operating system and the print spooler there. That's just a guess mind but I do know that there's quite a few people finding out the hard way that HP have seriously knackered a number of network setups through this little trick.

One thing that may be worth trying is to change the way you connect to the printer (assuming you're using the LAN function). If you recreate the port you use to connect to the printer so that it's a "Standard TCP/IP port" rather than the HP variety that may well solve the problem.. It has worked elsewhere... That and playing with the print spooler options.

Hope that helps.

#28: Author: aab1,

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:02 pm
—

Quote:
Have you been able to continue to use standard HP chips on these printers and just refilling them then?

On my other printers, I had NEVER gotten an auto reset chip and NEVER got any warnings about ink. Have you ever tried it with an original HP chip? It might get rid of the problem entirely (it does on older HP printers, HP printers are refill friendly and do not do anything to annoy refillers, at least not my previous models).

Quote:
It's something that HP have picked up from Canon's own chip design and functionality. Canon doesn't bug you every 2000 pages but it does force you to declare the printer out of warranty if you continue which HP does and BTW, you'll notice that the printer does store this information in memory as you can see on the self test printout. So beware if you're thinking of warranty return.

If you read the warning correctly, it says it will only cancel warranty repair IF the damage was a direct result of using non HP ink, for any other problem, they don't care if you refill or not (it's law anyway, they cannot cancel your warranty for not buying their supplies, it's illegal).

Quote:
Frankly HP drivers are foooking awful, bloated pieces of rubbish and every once in a while they put out new ones that create more problems than older ones.. Not sure what the best ones are re: the L7000 series but I am looking.

That's strange, I had never ever had an HP driver problem until the L7780.

Quote:
Not sure... it should be possible to send everything to spool but at a guess, having seen the way that HP have "improved" some of their newer laser printers it's possible that they've actually reduced the memory in these models making them much more reliant on the operating system and the print spooler there. That's just a guess mind but I do know that there's quite a few people finding out the hard way that HP have seriously knackered a number of network setups through this little trick.

My 9110 had 128 MB RAM, my L7780 has 96MB RAM, yet it can't even print a 10k document without relying on the computer the whole time.

Quote:
One thing that may be worth trying is to change the way you connect to the printer (assuming you're using the LAN function). If you recreate the port you use to connect to the printer so that it's a "Standard TCP/IP port" rather than the HP variety that may well solve the problem.. It has worked elsewhere... That and playing with the print spooler options.

I now have it connected by USB, I had tried Wifi and still had the same problem. My router just died and I don't intend on buying another one (apparently routers only last 1-2 years, I smell planned obsolecence here, there's NO reason a router couldn't last 10 years, they're probably made to self destruct after 1-2 years so I won't get fooled by that again) so network options are out for me.

Thanks for the info.

#29: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:21 pm
—

aab1 wrote:
Quote:
Have you been able to continue to use standard HP chips on these printers and just refilling them then?

On my other printers, I had NEVER gotten an auto reset chip and NEVER got any warnings about ink. Have you ever tried it with an original HP chip? It might get rid of the problem entirely (it does on older HP printers, HP printers are refill friendly and do not do anything to annoy refillers, at least not my previous models).

Well I know I get errors on this model but I'll see about trying it with a standard chip sometime. It'd certainly help if true but somehow I'm expecting them to say "I'm empty" as with Canons... We'll see.

Quote:
If you read the warning correctly, it says it will only cancel warranty repair IF the damage was a direct result of using non HP ink, for any other problem, they don't care if you refill or not (it's law anyway, they cannot cancel your warranty for not buying their supplies, it's illegal).

Ah... but why would I actually read the warning being a hot blooded male n'all Very Happy

... Ok... thanks for that tip. I'm aware they have some limitations but worth knowing the small print.

Quote:
Quote:
Frankly HP drivers are foooking awful, bloated pieces of rubbish and every once in a while they put out new ones that create more problems than older ones.. Not sure what the best ones are re: the L7000 series but I am looking.

That's strange, I had never ever had an HP driver problem until the L7780.

Well for the K550 and on, I've had nothing but trouble, likewise seen similar issues with the others, especially when network printer are concerned.

Quote:
My 9110 had 128 MB RAM, my L7780 has 96MB RAM, yet it can't even print a 10k document without relying on the computer the whole time.

Could well be your spooler settings then.. You could try setting it to print when sent to spooler rather than immediately.

Quote:
I now have it connected by USB, I had tried Wifi and still had the same problem. My router just died and I don't intend on buying another one (apparently routers only last 1-2 years, I smell planned obsolecence here, there's NO reason a router couldn't last 10 years, they're probably made to self destruct after 1-2 years so I won't get fooled by that again) so network options are out for me.

To be honest it's not so much planned obselescence as poor build quality and parts which is the same the world over. Take a look at some of the kitchen appliances our parents still have (Kenwood mixers being a case in point), we have one we inherited and my mum has one she's had since I was born.. Still going strong after 30+ years... You can't buy that quality now unless you pay hundreds for it. Same with computer equipment.

#30: Author: aab1,

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:38 pm
—
I'd be curious to know what happens with HP chips on the cartridges. Please let me know if you try it.

About the router not being planned obsolescence and being just built cheap, that pretty much means the same to me, building it cheap is a way to include planned obsolescence in a way.

About about the K550 drivers, well the K550 is HP's biggest mistake ever, I wonder if there's a single one out there that actually works. I returned 4 in 4 days with the same problem before giving up. All iser reviews also mention the same problem. The K550 is a broken product out of the box in every case it seems.

I meant printers before the horrible K550 that ruined HP's reputation. At least this L7780 is still working great after about 8000 prints, but the driver issue is really annoying.

Thanks

#31: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:10 am
—

aab1 wrote:
I'd be curious to know what happens with HP chips on the cartridges. Please let me know if you try it.

Will do...

Quote:
About about the K550 drivers, well the K550 is HP's biggest mistake ever, I wonder if there's a single one out there that actually works. I returned 4 in 4 days with the same problem before giving up. All user reviews also mention the same problem. The K550 is a broken product out of the box in every case it seems.

I meant printers before the horrible K550 that ruined HP's reputation. At least this L7780 is still working great after about 8000 prints, but the driver issue is really annoying.

Funny you should say that, I've got three K550's in schools and they've been nothing but trouble since day one... That said I had one sat at home setup and working fine for months.. move it to school and the damned thing starts going screwy.

In truth I'm finding the L7680 at home similar thanks to the same lousy printhead build quality and fast approaching the point of offloading all my HP's on ebay and investing in Canons across the board. The MP830 is a hell of a lot better quality, perhaps not the paper capacity but in terms of just usability, I prefer it.. If only they put printservers in the darned thing Smile

Anyways, we're getting off topic..

#32: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:18 pm
—
Well, I'm no closer to understanding what is going on here but I've just seen a second brand new printhead start smearing the yellow with black which would seem to indicate that there's a problem with black ink being pushed through too fast or seeping out into the pad that the printhead rests on. Whatever the reason it's left me with no choice but to abandon the modified cartridge approach and return to using the 3rd party cartridges again.

The whole episode has left me scratching my head rather a lot and given that the Canons are now pretty much working as required I think my decision to concentrate my efforts in that direction has to be a positive one. There's really only so much time available to play with these things and come to that, money too! Shocked

For anyone else who opts to try this approach just a few last notes to clue you into the setup... Any insights will always be welcome btw.

Setup:
- reservoirs = dip bottle arrangement
- black ink level set so that top of ink less than an inch above the top of the cartridge
- HP OEM cartridge converted to use a 2mm ID barbed fitting with right angle elbow to attach a 2mm ID tubing (tyon silicon)

And just as a sort of concluding episode, I've just reprimed the original cartridge by drawing a very strong vaccum on it and then allowed it to refill with ink. Got that setup, run a few sheets of paper through using a 4 colour and yellow only purge pattern and now the printhead seems to be working again. Not sure if that'll last long term but we'll see... In addition the reservoir has been put back up so the ink level sits at 7 inches from the base of the printer.

Think I'm ready to conclude defeat on this one folks.. Embarassed

#33: Author: aab1,

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:41 am
—
Yesterday during a 1000 page print job with lots of cyan, the cyan eventually stopped comming out completely. Luckily I had a spare working C/M head from the peice of junk K550 I unfortunately bought.

The printhead died after just 11,000 prints, 20% of it's expected life (rated for over 50,000 prints). I'm starting to think this is due to the imbeciles that disabled the ink pump on my CIS system. What do you think?

Also, why go through so much trouble to get tubes in the HP cartridges? When I do it, I simply insert the tube in the cartridge refilling hole (with the black rubber sealing ball) and then hot glue it in place. That takes 2-5 minutes per cartridge and does a very reliable seal and connection (I've done 100,000 prints problem free on my 9110 with a CIS I made this way). I don't understand why you go through the extra work of curring the bag and trying to fit the tube, is it just to avoid the bag disintegrating with age? If so, my method is so simple I wouldn't mind re doing it every 3 years each time the cartridges expired, in fact, on my 9110, the printer broke before I ever had a chance to redo the CIS setup.

#34: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:30 pm
—

aab1 wrote:
Yesterday during a 1000 page print job with lots of cyan, the cyan eventually stopped comming out completely. Luckily I had a spare working C/M head from the peice of junk K550 I unfortunately bought.

The printhead died after just 11,000 prints, 20% of it's expected life (rated for over 50,000 prints). I'm starting to think this is due to the imbeciles that disabled the ink pump on my CIS system. What do you think?

I wouldn't like to bet against it... I've not had a printhead last the declared age yet but we're using similar systems.

Quote:
Also, why go through so much trouble to get tubes in the HP cartridges? When I do it, I simply insert the tube in the cartridge refilling hole (with the black rubber sealing ball) and then hot glue it in place. That takes 2-5 minutes per cartridge and does a very reliable seal and connection (I've done 100,000 prints problem free on my 9110 with a CIS I made this way). I don't understand why you go through the extra work of curring the bag and trying to fit the tube, is it just to avoid the bag disintegrating with age? If so, my method is so simple I wouldn't mind re doing it every 3 years each time the cartridges expired, in fact, on my 9110, the printer broke before I ever had a chance to redo the CIS setup.

Initially I was ready to write a very long reply then I realised it boiled down to me being a complete muppet who likes to make things difficult for himself.

A recent discussion I had with the guy who builds these kits himself indicated that they too use a fitting there and I'd originally ignored it as I thought my fittings won't go in the fill hole properly without blocking the chip holder part. Having looked at it properly again after a little cutting work it seems you're right...

I think the words I'm looking for at this point is "dumbass".. Ah well... sometimes I have to be so blasted "clever" Embarassed

#35: Author: aab1,

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:58 pm
—
I'll try to make my own CIS out of the original HP cartridges to get the ink pump going again. With my Officejet 9110, nearly all my printheads EXCEEDED their claimed life, and that was livign their entire life fed by the CIS system.

I expect my printer to be back to normal once I re enable it's ink pump. I guess it could only be a doctor who'd disable a printer's ink pump as if was useless, just like they needlessly (in most cases) remove human organs for profit, thinking they have no use in the human body (whi do you think nature put them there, or in the case of the printer, why do you think they put an ink pump? probably because they determined it was necessary for the proper functionning of the machine).

#36: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:56 am
—
I did actually write a follow on post as I successfully modified an OEM cartridge by putting a little double barbed elbow (with a sleeve of tubing to seal it tight) into the filling port and then running the tube out to the reservoir.

Works a treat and so long as the reservoir is elevated (I've put mine on top of my K550 - test machine) it seems to do the trick perfectly... Although having said that I notice immediately that the air in the printhead is still very much a problem... Once it's in there it really will not come out again! Mad

#37: Author: aab1,

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:38 pm
—
Oh, you're using a K550!? I would recommend NOT testing anything on a K550, the black/yellow printhead problems are a "built in" problem on this printer model, they ALL have this issue, CIS or not, read the reviews, not one user didn't report this problem. The black/yellow issues you are having are NOT from the CIS system. There is not one K550 that works, all reviews confirm this and I've had 4 in a row with the same black/yellow printhead issue (without CIS, still on the original HP cartridges).

#38: Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:59 pm
—

aab1 wrote:
Oh, you're using a K550!? I would recommend NOT testing anything on a K550, the black/yellow printhead problems are a "built in" problem on this printer model, they ALL have this issue, CIS or not, read the reviews, not one user didn't report this problem. The black/yellow issues you are having are NOT from the CIS system. There is not one K550 that works, all reviews confirm this and I've had 4 in a row with the same black/yellow printhead issue (without CIS, still on the original HP cartridges).

Ah, I've heard about this and had to get a couple of new printheads sent as replacements from HP as a result.. but that only affects the OEM printheads sent with the K550's, not any retail ones purchased later which is what I have now.

As it goes I now have a working K550dtn sitting on the floor with a bottle of ink sitting on top of the printer and running into an OEM cartridge via the fill port on the cartridge so the cart bag is intact and full. It's working an absolute treat and I'll be doing the same with the other cartridges (CYM) when I have some time over this half term holiday.

Granted the K550 is a bit of a bollixed up system, and the expanded paper tray is one key example of this with it failing to work a good 50% of the time... in terms of printhead and consumables though it's exactly the same as the L7X80 and K5400's so whilst I'm not a great fan of the printer the printhead issue is incumbent in all HP88 printheads.

Either way, as I said, it's working and working well so I feel a little happier all told Smile

#39: Author: __-_-_-__,

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:51 pm
—
printheads have a warranty.hp told me they last until the date written on the printhead. therefore they will replace the printheads regardless from what you print =)

#40: Hp 88 ..resetting problem Author: kaponne,

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:18 am
—
Hi to all...i am new here...but with an old problem...i want to ask the expert (Martin Razz

) if he foud a permanent fix for it.
My problem is with the hp88 and hp10 CISS...when i print after the first page that comes out i get the error that the cartiges are emty...after i open and close the printer lid it continues to print as usual..this happens every time i print something. Already tested on a k5400,k550 and 2800.
this is very very furtrating...i dont know if is a chip problem or its the pump ....pls help!

#41: Re: Hp 88 ..resetting problem Author: Martin, Location: South Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:58 am
—

kaponne wrote:
Hi to all...i am new here...but with an old problem...i want to ask the expert (Martin ) if he foud a permanent fix for it.
My problem is with the hp88 and hp10 CISS...when i print after the first page that comes out i get the error that the cartiges are emty...after i open and close the printer lid it continues to print as usual..this happens every time i print something. Already tested on a k5400,k550 and 2800.
this is very very furtrating...i dont know if is a chip problem or its the pump ....pls help!

Sorry this came so late..

Chances are the problem is chip related, or at least that would be my first port of call... It's possible the printer has a damaged sensor somewhere in there too though.

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