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High quality CISS selection advice
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Post High quality CISS selection advice 
Greetings,

I just stumbled on this forum today. I've been researching CISS for literally months now, but there just doesn't seem to be much current, unbiased info out there in the wild. Very frustrating.

I've read a ton, but a lot of it isn't terribly helpful because my situation is perhaps a bit uniqie. Maybe I'm mistaken, but in my reading, it seems that 99% of CISS users are divided into two camps:

1) Very high end professional users. Folks with photo studios who are using multi-thousand dollar printers, care about and understand color calibration, and have a great background in the professional print world.

2) Home users who want to save money on day to day printing, who are resigned that they will get lesser quality out of aftermarket ink, but they don't care, because they'll just send out to a lab for photos.

I fit into neither of these camps. I and my partner run a very small desktop publishing company. We primarily specialize in custom greeting cards and invitations. 99% of what we print is done in our home office on a Canon MX850. Thus far, we have only used genuine Canon carts.

Shortly, we will be expanding and opening up a store front. So we need to purchase at least one more printer. We'd also like to go CIS on both the MX850, and whatever other printer we use as well.

We just purchased an Epson NX415, and a Canon MX700. Neither have even been opened yet, but the sales on them were decent enough to need to pounce. I am very skeptical about both these printers. The Epson I know little about, but it seems that perhaps it's too new to have caught the attention of the CISS world yet?

The MX700, is simply a baffeling machine to me.
I understand the way the MX850 (and several other Canon models) works:
8C, 8M, 8Y, 8K are all pigment based, and are used for photos and graphics.
5K is dye based, and is used just for monochrome text document printing.
I understand that Dye and Pigment based inks don't play well together, but the way they're set up in the MX850, it doesn't matter, because they're not mixed, just used in parallel. (please feel free to correct me if this is wrong).

But the MX700 has the same system, but without the 8K cart. So it *has* to use the 5K, or mix the CMY to get (a poor quality) black. Either way quality suffers.

So my first question is is this:
With the MX700, since I'm going CISS, and choosing my own ink anyway, why not just ignore this flaw in the printer and use all pigment (or all dye) inks for the 5K, 8C, 8M, and 8Y CISS tanks? Will the printer mix them no problem, or will the printer ignore the black unless I'm printing text? Also, is there any risk in using a pigment in a print head intended for dye, or vice versa?


Next, I'm not married to any of these printers, but I do need something quickly.

My requirements are:
1) We print on heavy stock, so it must have a "straight through" paper feed. Most Canon and Epson printers meet this requirement. Most HP don't, since they bend the paper 180 degrees in a short space, so the paper comes out curled.
2) Must be able to be CIS compatible. Since we buy in bulk, the 5x7 card-stock we use for our prints costs us about $0.02 ea. But ink for a borderless print currently costs between $0.16 and $0.23 ea. (best estimates). That's by far our biggest consumable expense. So reducing ink costs is our primary motivation to moving to CISS. Also, it won't hurt to be able to do a 300 print run without changing out cartridges mid-run.
3) While our prints don't need to last 100 years, but they need to look great, and they need to last a reasonable amount of time. Most folks aren't framing greeting cards. But they shouldn't look like ass a few months either.
4) And AIO printer is preferable, but not a deal breaker. Space is at a big premium in our new storefront. And we need the ability to scan customer provided photos. Fax is not even a factor for us.

So I guess what I'm asking i given those constraints, what kind of Printer / CISS / Ink would you recommend? Both for the existing MX850, and for the second printer. I'm open to using either of the printers we just purchased, or returning them for something else new, or even searching Craigslist or eBay for a printer that's no longer being produced. We really just need a trouble free / low cost per print / high quality printing system. If we have to spend a bit more at first, so be it.

Thanks in advance. We'd really love to hear the insight of those who have some experience with these systems.

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Post Re: High quality CISS selection advice 
pyromosh wrote:
I've read a ton, but a lot of it isn't terribly helpful because my situation is perhaps a bit uniqie. Maybe I'm mistaken, but in my reading, it seems that 99% of CISS users are divided into two camps:

1) Very high end professional users. Folks with photo studios who are using multi-thousand dollar printers, care about and understand color calibration, and have a great background in the professional print world.

2) Home users who want to save money on day to day printing, who are resigned that they will get lesser quality out of aftermarket ink, but they don't care, because they'll just send out to a lab for photos.

This is fairly accurate but your own description is also catered for in part. They tend to fit more into the Pro end but with less emphasis on the whole perfect colour reproduction, which is really just about ink quality, profiling, etc...

Quote:
Shortly, we will be expanding and opening up a store front. So we need to purchase at least one more printer. We'd also like to go CIS on both the MX850, and whatever other printer we use as well.

We just purchased an Epson NX415, and a Canon MX700. Neither have even been opened yet, but the sales on them were decent enough to need to pounce. I am very skeptical about both these printers. The Epson I know little about, but it seems that perhaps it's too new to have caught the attention of the CISS world yet?

Right... In all honestly my advice would be to forget about a CIS for the MX850... or for any other Canon... I say this because after literally two years of trying different systems and Canon printers, I've reached the conclusion that they are just not CIS compatible unless you want a world of pain. If you want to give them a try then I would definitely look to Rihac.com.au and only buy one unit to see if it does what you want.

What I would recommend for Canon printers though is to consider refilling OEM cartridges and using a simple chip resetter. nifty-stuff.com forums are the best place for advice and sources and whilst it's a pain to learn, once you have the routine down pat you'll find it's a lot more time and cost effective than a CIS that's playing silly buggers.


Ok... that said, the Epson printers are also creating problems with CIS units but more in terms of the chips and anti-reset measures that are becoming more prevelant. Certainly the NX415 is one of the newest and unlikely to have been stripped down to find a work-around... My advice in that regard is to seriously consider older models through ebay, or refurb shops... Printers like the R800, R685, or 1400 are worth looking at if you can get one... CIS's are available so whilst it might cost a bit more or be a bit of a risk in terms of older printer, the actual value is much higher.


The MX700 is a complete was of time frankly... I got one in for a review and couldn't wait to get rid of it... It's a poor mans printer but that said it's better build quality than the newest Canon printers.

Quote:
My requirements are:
1) We print on heavy stock, so it must have a "straight through" paper feed. Most Canon and Epson printers meet this requirement. Most HP don't, since they bend the paper 180 degrees in a short space, so the paper comes out curled.
2) Must be able to be CIS compatible. Since we buy in bulk, the 5x7 card-stock we use for our prints costs us about $0.02 ea. But ink for a borderless print currently costs between $0.16 and $0.23 ea. (best estimates). That's by far our biggest consumable expense. So reducing ink costs is our primary motivation to moving to CISS. Also, it won't hurt to be able to do a 300 print run without changing out cartridges mid-run.
3) While our prints don't need to last 100 years, but they need to look great, and they need to last a reasonable amount of time. Most folks aren't framing greeting cards. But they shouldn't look like ass a few months either.
4) And AIO printer is preferable, but not a deal breaker. Space is at a big premium in our new storefront. And we need the ability to scan customer provided photos. Fax is not even a factor for us.

Given your constraints I'd look seriously at the MX850 some more and refilled cartridges...

I'd then see if you can source an refurbed RX658 (or equivalent for your zone) for copying or if you can spare the space an Epson 1400 and a small format PC with a scanner...

Hope that helps but I'm aware it's been a while since you posted and for some reason my email system didn't get a notice out...


_________________
Printers: (Canon) MP500/830, MX700, iP4000/4200/4300/4500/5200, iX4000(A3) (Epson) C84/86, D88, CX6600, R285/800/1900 (HP) K550, K850, K5400, L7680
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Post An American or Canadian CISS manufacturer 
I hear what you are saying about RIHAC of Australia. They seem to have top quality CISS systems for Canon (I have MX860) and very likely Epson (I have RX580).

However, I live in the US. I would love to find a company in the USA (or in Canada) who has such high quality standards as RIHAC of Australia for especially Canon. That is just so far away, and to my knowledge RIHAC desn't have a distributor on my side of the globe. Is there any North American company you would suggest that does a great job with CISS Canon (the problem child) and Epson?

I thank you in advance for your help with my problem. I thank you also for others who read this and also have a Canon on my side of the world.

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Post Re: An American or Canadian CISS manufacturer 
sluzen wrote:
I hear what you are saying about RIHAC of Australia. They seem to have top quality CISS systems for Canon (I have MX860) and very likely Epson (I have RX580).

However, I live in the US. I would love to find a company in the USA (or in Canada) who has such high quality standards as RIHAC of Australia for especially Canon. That is just so far away, and to my knowledge RIHAC desn't have a distributor on my side of the globe. Is there any North American company you would suggest that does a great job with CISS Canon (the problem child) and Epson?

I thank you in advance for your help with my problem. I thank you also for others who read this and also have a Canon on my side of the world.

Sorry for the VERY delayed response...

I honestly couldn't suggest anyone else except possible inksupply.com although I haven't used their kits or checked their information in years.


_________________
Printers: (Canon) MP500/830, MX700, iP4000/4200/4300/4500/5200, iX4000(A3) (Epson) C84/86, D88, CX6600, R285/800/1900 (HP) K550, K850, K5400, L7680
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